Dread and the fugitive mind


(Vittonik72) #1

Well two accomodations: 1) I have not studied Endocronology nor Nuclear Medicine, 2) I cannot backup the rumour mill having not viewed the studies nor those accused of covering up a possible cure. 

I had read sometime ago that there is a possible cure theory.  The treatment in question or rather the drug has FDA approval is cost effective and on the market.  So, and I am over simplifiying and possibly ommitting details but as I understand this is a drug or a hormone that tells the immune system that what the body is producing (insulin) is not a pathogen and harmless so that the pancreas can continue insulin production.  I am trying to watch what I say but a certain familiar organization has tried to hamper the study in regards to a cure in existence.  And again rumor has it that a certain company (can't back this up) involved in diabetes care has purchased I don't know like licensing rights?  to this drug. 

I am fortunate to have insurance and my copays for doctor visits and prescriptions are minimal, but it seems that I am in the minority having a preexisting condition and still having insurance coverage for a terminal disease, and I do believe that companies and doctors do profit over the existance of said disease as a major source of income.  But in closing I do pray for life.


(A-D) #2

Victor,

It is harder to get coverage with a preexisting condition and it is, I think the reason many of us have sought employment with larger companies.  Thank heaven for open-enrollment windows…  Also, I believe my endo is worth what he charges and I do not believe that he is going above what the market should bear for his expertise.  We do live in a capatilistic system and it is a natural side effect...

I do not believe that the researchers who are doing diabetes work will be unable to lend considerable and credible assistance to other research efforts with other diseases and issues.  In fact, I believe the research field is stretched thin with the number of serious illnesses and health problems that need attention.  A cure for diabetes would be huge news, as would a cure for cancer or any other life changing illness.  I strongly suspect that if more than one person knew of such a cure/answer, it would cease to be a secret.  I also believe it is unlikely that any one person without any knowledge or assistance from others will have had the ability to find/design such a cure.  The reality is that a secret of that magnitude would be a horrible thing to have to keep to one's self in the wee hours of the night.  I will not say it is impossible but that it seems unimaginably improbable to me.

I believe that there will be a cure found in my lifetime, and I believe the reality is that curing this disease is considerably more complex than one may see at first blush.  Whether it comes from college research or the drug companies or some independent research lab, I will assert that the best thing we can do is to keep giving attention and support to those working in these areas.  As much as I try to find a benefit to promoting a conspiracy theory, I can see no good coming from it and if it causes anyone to turn on those working on the cure, I can see it being, at least potentially, quite damaging.

Good luck to us all.

Cheers,

A-D

P.S.

Please note – I’m a T1D without any particular corporate affiliations.  My views are based solely on my experiences and observations in the world and have no more validity than any other peer-on-the-street observer.  I don’t normally offer a disclaimer but in this case… it seems worthy of an exception ;)  Whoo - just read back through that - I need my keyboard to start beeping at me anytime I type more than 100 characters in a row :(


(Vittonik72) #3

With regards to $218 billion dollar cost in addition to the costs that a monetary value can't be placed to be dismissed as a capitalistic system?  If it causes change a springboard for some momentum forward that some type of conspiracy, money for creditable research denied, certain drug companies securing licensing rights than permit me to disagree with you.  Quite the contrary my disgust is at what price is it to be had.  So I hope no funding for a cure is denied either by profits or non profits in the business of diabetes and whether it comes as a result of bga, stem cells, or islet transplant I hope to walk that sendero luminoso.

Selah


(stephsalem) #4

Selah......TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

They have already said their is a cancer drug out there that REVERSES...yes REVERESES type 1 diabetes in mice. Now this drug is ALREADY being used in humans as a cancer treatment, but they have to test it AGAIN in mice before they can be sure it is safe for human use.  Ten bucks says it isn't safe for human use after the "human" test trials because guess what they make more money off of us being sick.  It is COMPLETELY to do with the capitlistic gain of PRIVATE medical supply companies.


(A-D) #5

Stephsalem,

There have been (at least) dozens of cures that have worked in NOD mice and were completely worthless in humans.  If I had to bet on a reason it will fail approval for treating diabetes, it would be that...

Cheers!

A-D


(stephsalem) #6

Really, because I have only heard of one....can you shed some light as to what the others are?


(A-D) #7

 

I will need to circle back.  Most of my research is on my home PC and it will be down for a couple days (motherboard replacement).  These are a few of the quick hitters I could find searching from memory.  The last one (I think) is the one that does a fair job of reviewing some of the wins and losses - if it is the one I was shown by my endo.  Assuming I can get either at my materials or get my doctor's attention, I should be able to do more justice to this follow up.   

http://www.dsolve.com/news-aamp-info-othermenu-60/1-latest/22-news9

http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2006/20060323-diabetes.html

Corresponding author

Georgia Fousteri, PhD

La Jolla Institute for Allergy and Immunology,

Department of Developmental Immunology 3,

9420 Athena Circle, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA.

E-mail: fousteri@liai.org

 

Current Diabetes Reports 2007, 7:9198

Current Medicine Group LLC ISSN 1534-4827

Copyright © 2007 by Current Medicine Group LLC

The human gut offers more than 200 m2 of mucosal

surface, where direct interactions between the immune

system and foreign antigens take place to eliminate

pathogens or induce immune tolerance toward food

antigens or normal gut flora. Therefore, mucosally

administered antigens can induce tolerance under certain

circumstances. In autoimmune diabetes, mucosal

vaccination with autoantigens elicits some efficacy in

restoring tolerance in mice, but it never succeeded in

humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17919765?ordinalpos=18&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17327430?ordinalpos=26&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/117985525/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 

And the study which provides a more comprehensive review, I suspect (though I 'm not willing to pay for it) is at:

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1074761305002402

"Interestingly, some popular tenets regarding NOD interventions were not confirmed: all treatments do not prevent disease, treatment dose and timing strongly influence efficacy, and several therapies have successfully treated overtly diabetic mice. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I hope this is enough for a start.

Cheers,

A-D


(stephsalem) #8

You misunderstand what I referring to....the point I was trying to make is that they are requiring three different studies on humans to see if the drug is SAFE in humans, but they already use this particular drug in cancer patience. Not only is it a waste in research funds to do this trial three times, but also to say that is is to find the safety in humans when they are already giving this drugs to humans.

Also, I completely understand that research is expensive...but mind you $100 per bottle of humolog is completely absurd. Not to mention if you use a pump and the cost of those supplies out of pocket.

And what about test strips....what research does the 25 cents a test strip contribute too?

My point is it is easier and PROFITABLE for the companies to continue making money off of us, than it is for them to actually find a cure.

Yes, we all hope wish and want them to find a cure. And we all dream that there are not that many money grubbing individuals out there, but trust me they are out there and they really do not care.


(A-D) #9

stephsalem,

The problem is that the idea of charging what the market will bear on health items is akin to holding people hostage.  I do not disagree with that and yet, I am torn because I am a big believer in Capitalism.  Most of these companies are trying to come up with the next new better product while paying for the research that they did on previous products (many of which do not go to market and therefore never recover the investments).  Now, your pharmacy is charging you 25 dollars a vial more than mine which is interesting on the insulin.  Glevec (sp)? Is outrageously expensive.  It was years in development and it worked so well they rushed it through.  It saves lives.  It was approved for otherwise terminal patients and the testing was incomplete.  They are getting feedback from the people who have been on it these last several years but it is, I have to suspect, a narrow market.  One of my closest friends has his Leukemia held at bay by that little pill.  Whatever he’s paying, it’s worth it (and he agrees).

The idea that these companies will make less money if they cure diabetes seems unrealistic to me.  They will charge a mint for the cure to cover that research and all of the research that they were putting into things that did not pan out.  There will be tests and kidney and eye and other treatments , no doubt, to reverse the effects of our years with the illness – who knows what else.. Then they will find another way back into all of our pockets.  Whether it is with an Alzheimer’s medication or a longevity pill or a better way to see, smell, breath, hear, love, grow, heal – we spend money on what ails us.  And we all will spend money to put off dying and these companies are well aware of it.  Fixing any one major disease will have them shift focus but I will bet none of the major drug players will have even one down year.   Hopefully your .25/test strip is going towards some of the research many companies are now doing on non-invasive IR based testing and monitoring…  You believe they researched one type of test strip put it to market and never did anything else.  I guess it is possible but the advances I’ve seen since 1983 lead me to believe many companies are constantly working on a lot of different things and the field is competitive.  And yes, some of my reason for believing this is that it keeps me happy and I sleep better at night.  I can still focus on those things over which I have influence.  I suspect that my points may be lost.  I will still try to gather some of the other research information to post here because I believe it will be a useful resource.

I do hear what your saying and what I am saying, in short, is that I choose to see the world a little differently.  Whew – all of that to get to the point where I say, I admire your passion and disagree with your conclusions.  And whoever’s right, I hope we all live long, happy, healthy lives and that when there is a cure released, I hope that everyone in the world who needs it – has access to it.

Cheers!

A-D

 


(anathia) #10

Unfortunately, I'm unable to give you a link to the article to which I'm about to refer, but the title is "Hunting for a Cure," by Tom Bethell.  It is about the complications that have arisen in Type I Diabetes research, mostly due to the fact that, although they know there is a genetic cause for this disease, they don't know what do with that information.  Mostly, it's caused by the Hashimoto's antibody, but in reality, they really aren't sure how to diminish the prevalence of the antibody in people's systems, nor do they know how to use preventative medicine to 1) predict and 2) prevent development of the disease.

 

Now, the cure thing: there are actually a couple of very promising research leads for _new_ diabetics, very recently diagnosed. (You probably heard about one of them on the news a couple weeks ago.)  Unfortunately, once again, they don't know how to cure a long-diagnosed diabetic.

 

Am I suspicious of the medical industry? You bet.  Am I sure that capitalism is the way to go? I'm not sure of anything in this world. Do I think that we'd be better off in a socialist system, or a monarchy? I'd be very surprised.

 

Although, yes, medicine is a multi-billion dollar industry, I would argue that we haven't seen a cure yet isn't so much because there is a cure and it would lose money for the medical industry to enact it, as juvenile diabetics truly _are_ a relatively small portion of the population, and there are, as a few people have pointed out, so many illnesses out there right now, that we do get overlooked. And finally, there's that four-zillion ton gorilla sitting in the corner that everyone always confuses US with having: type II diabetes--that is where _most_ of the research money and efforts are going because it's an epidemic, and, unfortunately, it is caused for a reason we know: lifestyle.  It's a lot easier to combat lifestyle choices than genetic problems.