How long can someone live with type one without being diagnosed?

(Jared) #22

I mean, LITERALLY the difference is the cause. It’s not a debate. I was diagnosed at 21 “suddenly” after all the same symptoms you went through, the same we all go through. The easiest way to indicate such difference is to explain the attack on the pancreas via the immune system. Insulin resistance is not about your “liver resisting”. That’s not how sugar gets into cells at all. It’s to do with the mTor pathway, which is more or less sensitive depending on certain trigger hormones (ie insulin) and presence in blood / tissue saturation. The AI’s destruction of Beta C cells is what T1D is. Anything else is not T1.

(Jared) #23

While the AI is killing off the cells, you are likely prediabetic. Your symptoms slowly creep up on you and increase in severity. This is caused by the remaining cells working harder to produce insulin to make up for the lost Beta Cs. Once they’ve killed enough, the workload reaches critical mass, and you are fully diabetic, as the last of them expire. Some people have a few that trickle along for up to 10 + years, not providing enough insulin, but providing enough that you’re alive. Others, have this same phenomenon, yet the production is not enough to sustain metabolic processes, and as such they have to deal with inconsistent carb to insulin ratios. There are also many possibilities between these two extremes, and that depends on the individual.

(Jeanne) #24

Jared I understand that you believe that you are right but you just aren’t. Type 1 diabetes is a minority of the diabetic community but lada is a minority inside it. Also although our diabetes was caused by the same thing It did not present the same. The reason being that although my body stopped producing insulin I still had enough in my body to make the torture slow and last for years. You may not believe me but I’m not the first and I will not be the last. You should become aware because it’s likely that this will happen to one of your family members, it’s rare so maybe your child or your childs child. But you will want to know for someone. So look it up. Educate yourself. Oh and type 2 diabetes is the cells becoming resistant to insulin while your body still produces insulin because the t4s did not attack the beta cells. You should look up the involvement of the liver as a filter in this, and even look up fatty liver as a possible cause. Like I said, educate yourself please because I’m sure you have explained that you are type 1 to people so you can imagine how I do not want to be responsible for your education in this matter. But if you want to help people and not help to ostracize them, please, look it up.

(Jared) #25

You are allowed to have your misconceptions, but you also just stated the liver as being the cause of t2d. The nomenclature is dependent on cause, nothing more. I work very closely with my endo and all of my statements have been cross referenced by her as well. I’m not going to start an arguement via forum, but I have left the required information concerning topics of independent research if you feel so inclined.

(Jeanne) #26

Please work closely with learning to read sentences and understand the difference between “the cause” as you stated and “a possible cause” as I’ve stated. Look I get it. You’ve gone around telling everyone that the difference is what you stated even though the way I read it is that you think type 2 diabetics can become type one and it’s about how much insulin the pancreas produces. Actually it’s type 1 diabetics that can become ALSO type two not the other way around. Type 1s stop producing type 2s cells resist using or allowing the insulin to flow naturally. A type 2 diabetic Will Never develop an auto immune disease but a type 1 diabetic can develop resistance. Like I said educate yourself so you don’t treat the next person with questions badly. I’m sorry this changes the way you understand or have to explain it but there was a time when you would have been told you weren’t type 1 because you found out at 21. Trust me if that happened, you would get annoyed too. This site is the first place I came for help and I got misinformed answers like yours and no real help with the problems I reached out to get a support system for. So like I said Educate Yourself.

(Christine) #27

For me there was no question
The definition of type 1 in the 70s was heavy ketones
I moved into ketoacidosis and coma
But you have to catch this quickly before you die!
What has been the greatest problem has been the deliberate confusion between type 1 and type 2
They are totally different diseases
I’ve been told nurses even Gps have not been trained to know this
Which means far less is spent on type 1 research and type 1s sometimes die in hospital because of the confusion

(Jared) #28

A perfect example of why not to assist individuals. It’s probably the most ignorant thing possible to assert I ever stated T1d is interchangeable. It isn’t. This isn’t a conversation about T1D getting insulin resistance, it’s the difference between T1 and T2. Don’t put words in my mouth, and do not assume. My words mean exactly what they say, and leave ZERO room for interpretation. If you infer, use your inference at your own risk. Additionally, obscuring my statement to something completely unrelated to my previous posts only goes to show, at the very least, you did not understand the point, syntax, or verbage of my post, and if that is the case, questions are preferable to assumptions. If you did understand it, there’s no way you would be accusing me of colluding the two diagnoses. No reason to necro a dead thread to call me out due to a lack of understanding. I stand by 100% of my statements, of which are backed by medical research. If that is problematic, perhaps you misinterpreted or misunderstood a previous post. I invite you to re-analyze your “facts”.

(Jeanne) #29

Ugh the seventies had to be hard. Humulin wasn’t even invented until the 80s right? I feel a weird kinship with the diabetics from back then. I think it’s because nobody had a clue what was going on then. Just like nobody had a clue about me. I mean this probably started in my mid to late 20s, maybe earlier. Because of actual doctor records of when I got really dizzy we agree I was living with partially acidic blood like a messed up form of Chinese water torture for a minimum of 2 and a half years before I got treated. I understand why, I was in my mid to late 20s I wasn’t fat, I wasn’t skinny I live in the desert so being thirsty is just normal, or at least easily excused. I wasn’t literally dying like a normal type 1, I’m not type 2 so no offense to type 2s but I don’t look type 2, the doctors diagnosed me with depression . I feel for you @Christinebb it had to be terrifying not knowing if the doctors would get it right and all those different forms of insulin had to take a tole. But as crazy as it seems I wish I had just been hospitalized right away, it would have saved me years of torture.

(Jeanne) #30

The fact is you twisted my words and then accused me of the same. I understand that you believe you are correct however for some currently unknown reason grown adults present with type 1 diabetes differently. Mary Tyler Moore herself only found out because she miscarried. You should here the way my type 1 family talks about her. She brought awareness to type 1 diabetes nationally and they act like she’s a liar because she was around 30 and didn’t even know. Well Mary Tyler Moore is not a liar and neither am I. Fortunately if you want to educate yourself as I’ve been suggesting you can now use the term LADA to make it easier.
Also, this is not a book report. As impressive as your use of nomenclature and syntax is, your point is still wrong. Look up LADA already. It’s obvious you will only believe yourself.

(Jared) #31

I mean, my points allow anyone of any age to become T1d. T1 is merely a trigger. Lada is merely a subcategory. T1 is still T1. AI assault is the cause. 90% of the time it happens in early childhood. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen whenever, as the trigger is still not determined. My whole family carries the T1d antibodies, and I’m the only one with it in at least 10 generations. T1 only distinguishes between the cause, and the many subcategories of afflictions that may occur on an individual basis do not change that. I’ve not discredited your dx type, merely that your cause from dx does not change what you go through metabolically once T1. It just happened to you later in life, as it did myself and many others.

(Jeanne) #32

Im sorry but you are wrong. Please educate yourself.

(Jared) #33

“LADA is associated with the same genetic and immunological features as childhood-onset Type 1 diabetes”

From the very abstract you linked. There’s no reason to force this any further. It’s T1d, via a subcategory since your AI is either busy not doing it job murdering your pancreas, or you are immunocompromised, or the individual is old, or otherwise less metabolically active. This merely documents a struggle as many people progress to a T2D stage with age anyway due to a various degree of symptoms and reasons, and if the T1D AB is present, and happens to trigger, here you are.

Feel free to link me more abstracts, I’ll be happy to translate.

(Jared) #34

Also from the same abstract

“Diabetes is a complex disease and the clinical classification into Type 1 and Type 2 fails to capture the range of diseases incorporated within the diagnosis 1. Type 1a diabetes (henceforth Type 1 diabetes) is believed to be an autoimmune disease characterized by genetic, immunological and metabolic features. These features include an association with genes within the major histocompatibility complex (HLA), the presence of diabetes-associated autoantibodies (DAA) and severe loss of insulin secretion, which can lead to severe hyperglycaemia and ketoacidosis”

Which is precisely why T1 is T1 and T2 is T2.

There is no T1.5 at this point in time, and if and when they decide to create another classification for better indexing of the various disease types, I’ll concede to this classification. Until then, stop trying to force an irrelevant issue, as you’ve already proven misinformation in regards to what you think insulin even does in your body. There’s no reason to need to feel special, T1 and T2 are unique to each and every individual. All that can occur are the experiences of others assist the newcomers to what many of us have lived through.

In regards to any posts ive made in any thread about metabolic processes, however, diabetic or not, those are identical for every human being on the planet, and if they aren’t, you’re not alive. There’s no room for interpretation here, it’s how this biological machine works. Certain processes occur at different rates, but to live, we all do the same things.

I don’t think there’s any reason to high jack this further to talk about glycolysis, DKA, CAC, or catabolism as a result of CR. Ive posted elsewhere on these topics.

When I provide an opinion, I’m sure to make it blatantly obvious. This is not such a time.

(joe) #35

hi @Zarraeda and hi @JeanneMS, I think at this point the topic should conclude. Can we please hold civility over an objective to be correct? It is okay to have differences of opinion, I just sense a bit of tension now and it might be time to pause…

(Jeanne) #36

The National institute of health is not abstract. You are way to stubborn and still wrong

(Kirsten) #37

Um, in this context, “abstract” is a noun.

From Merriam-Webster:
noun ab·stract \ ˈab-ˌstrakt , in sense 2 also ab-ˈ
Definition of abstract
1 : a summary of points (as of a writing) usually presented in skeletal form; also : something that summarizes or concentrates the essentials of a larger thing or several things

(Jeanne) #38

Either way his summary was wrong because he again doesn’t know the difference from a possible cause and the cause. The actual cause is unknown but type 1 diabetes does not present the way he said every time and globally lada is more common according to that nih summary of the Danish study. My point is that people who think that diabetes is something that is figured out and we understand completely are just fooling themselves. The way he presented himself as an example of what would happen to any type 1 diabetic is an example of his ignorance to that fact. We do not know everything there is to know about diabetes yet. Therefore the difference between type 1 and type 2 is ONLY that type 1 is an autoimmune disease and type 2 is not. You should wait like I am until America actually tries to figure it out. And who knows, maybe if we look at the differences we will gain more knowledge and a cure won’t be so far fetched.

(Jared) #39

@JeanneMS Indeed, We know not all of just about any disease, but we do know 99% of how the human body’s metabolism works, and diabetes of any form disrupts that. Regardless of symptoms, the best treatment option is to resume normal metabolic operations, and knowing one individual’s path to doing such may guide many more on the same path. We’re all metabolically identical when it comes down to atoms and molecules, it’s merely the amount of what, and when you need what that changes person to person, and this statement is outside of diabetes, but a general fact. Understanding how your body produces ATP, gives anyone, but especially a diabetic, a greater understanding of how anything you consume will effect you, T1, T2, or T172. Whatever you’d like to call it.
This is the only point I’ve ever made, and I’ve repeatedly had to find different ways of explaining the exact same thing to you.

@kirsten Yes, this. An abstract is pretty much anything you’ll find in scientific journal format. It doesn’t necessarily mean the results were non-bias, nor does it indicate the type of study done. It’s the scientific equivalent of a tl;dr, but much more wordy.

@joe Sure thing. I’ll officially refrain from any further interjections from this point forward. I’ll apologize for both parties in this conversation, as I’m equally to blame, but as my replies tend to divulge more specific and medically relevant information, I wished to ensure this information was not construed incorrectly via forum. Mayhaps if I get a few hours to sit down, I’ll compile what I do know in a megapost for new T1D’s, to help alleviate the potential anxiety and confusion many newcomers have, whilst also preventing a potential text-pocalypse.

(joe) #40