Is health care a right or a privalidge? what do u think why?


(diabetes1998) #1

I think that Health Care is right. Because like us that have diabetes and we cant get health care that would mean that we would have to pay for all the stuff like pumps,meters and all that.

So what do u guys think?


(stilledlife) #2

Yes. It is some of both.

It is a right to have but the privilege part is... we don't abuse it. we have the responsibility to care for ourselves diabetic or not.

I've been to other countries with universal health care- they have never seen a pump- they don't have what we have.


(system) #3

[quote user="stilledlife"]

Yes. It is some of both.

It is a right to have but the privilege part is... we don't abuse it. we have the responsibility to care for ourselves diabetic or not.

I've been to other countries with universal health care- they have never seen a pump- they don't have what we have.

[/quote]

erm....we have universal health care in canada...and we have pumps.

 

I agree though, it's a right to have the best chance to take care of yourself but it's a privilege that shouldn't be taken for granted.


(kneazle_lady) #4

Health care is a right, in my experience and opinion. I also have the right to take care of myself or not take care of myself. I get to define what health means for me, not a nurse, or a doctor, or another person, not even another type 1. I have the right to disagree with my health provider and the right to seek better care or a compliant health care provider, if I need one. I also have the right to express my needs to someone who with a pen can change my life span, and be both respected and heard. In fact, I think, as a type 1 (being only one example), I have many rights. I try to respect the rights of others and to respect my own needs (health care, boundaries, relationships, whatever) as well. George Carlin might disagree (anyone ever hear his post election show, probably not near to the end of his life, where he said that nobody had rights?). I don't. When my rights are violated or ignored, or when other people's rights are violated or ignored, I also feel an obligation to act, even to practice civil disobedience if necessary, to stand up for those rights.

In short, I agree with you, Jaimie Rose Chaffin. Health care is a right. If it is not a right, then it is something that is optional. Since I must take insulin to live and must maintain my health to live both a long a high quality life, the privilege model means my death is a reasonable possibility.

In other words, if my health needs are not a right because, say, I do not belong to a protected class of citizens (thus making me an extraneous member of society anyway)...if I do not have enough money to "buy" my way through life, then I die. That's just fine for some people...to those who think that only special people deserve health care (to Hades with insurance, by the by...they make money off of sick people and do not help sick people when they need it the most--they're society's true freeloaders).

Only the people who have actually faced that option...the one where some stranger might actually be just peachy with you expiring because he or she cannot be put out by the fuss and bother...the expense...of your existence...only the people who have had to starve themselves to scrimp on insulin because there were no other options except a miracle (and Lord knows the One Upstairs is already busy enough what with the war and all)...only those people should have the inordinate power to declare what another human being deserves or doesn't.

ANyway...peace.


(diabetes1998) #5

Why i asked u guys this is because in S.S my teacher want to kown it health care is a right or not and fo me haveing diabetes i think it is right not something that u have to be given.


(Hilaryf) #6

I agree,

Without health care I could not have the pump I have my parents would be broke just to aford insulin shots would be expensive its sad but diabetes isnt cheap!

 

Hilary


(DDrumminMan) #7

Well, if you live in Canada or England or France or Cuba or Guantanamo Bay or in the military or prison, it's a right.  If you live in the good ole USA, it's a privilege.  I'm not sure privilege is the right word.  If you earn something, does that make it a privilege?  In the USA, you gotta earn it.  It's a screwy system, but it's what we got.

On a philosophical note, it's hard to argue that everyone should have access to it if they want it.  But, it's not free and it's not cheap.  Someway somehow it's gotta be paid for,  The seemingly obvious answer would be just to raise everyone's taxes some so that there's enough to pay for care for everyone.  Sort of like insurance payments.  However, America's power elite don't see it this way, so consequently, it's not that way.  Thus, it remains a privilege here (if that's the right word).


(Kateski) #8

[quote user="Crochet Nut"]

(to Hades with insurance, by the by...they make money off of sick people and do not help sick people when they need it the most--they're society's true freeloaders).

 

[/quote]YES!  EXACTLY!

 


(CHLjoe) #9

There is no reason why the US should not be able to provide health care to its citizens.  The inane rhetoric about socialism is pathetic.  We already enjoy social programs here:  Police, USPS, social security, welfare.  Medication is ridiculously overpriced in the states. 


(Anonymous) #10

Health care is a right.

I agree with Kate and Crochet Nut, get rid of the insurance companies.

I also agree with Joe. Socialism is abundant already in our society. I was just at the library the other day, awesome place.


(Eric_Carpenter) #11

Our current method of every man for himself is ridiculous.  Not only do individuals with more healthcare needs have a disadvantage due to medical issues, they suffer financial burdens directly.  Due to stress from managing (even choosing) between the two, indirect damage is done to them making life even harder.  Recently I heard that North Carolina is considering requiring all public university students to have health insurance, and by offering such a large pool to be covered, negotiators offered to cut the average premium in half (and they were tinkering with expanding coverage).  Maybe some won't use the system as much as others, but this keeps people from risking not having insurance and then developing a chronic condition (hello ignoring your pre-existing condition for a year or not insuring) and at least issues of access to care would be addressed.


(Amber Buller) #12

I think Health Care could go both ways. For people who dont work and r able to work it should be a privalidge because they r sitting at home doing nothing or using their money on drugs or something not useful when they could be working and supporting their home or family....... For people with a illness/disease who cant work or even if they can Health Care should be a right because if u think about what we have to get for diabetes and without insurance its verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry pricey and for older people who cant work and our sick that would be alot of money for them to get. and the sad thing is is that most people without healthcare who diserve it stop taking the medicine they need because they cant afford it :(


(diabetes1998) #13

On wesday i got my paper (the T1 i did) back and my S.S teacher gave my 5 points and i was very happy about i guess that if u stand up for what u belive in u will get it


(Maikuru) #14

Health care is a basic human right. Not something that only the wealthy should have in my opinion. When i was homeless for six months i remeber panhandling to get the fourty five dollars i needed to buy a bottle of regular insulin without insurance. I swore to myself when i had to pay over sixty dollars out of pocket for a box of  twenty five test strips that if the United States did not adopt a universal health care plan for all its citizens by 2015 that i would pack my bags and become a citizen of a country that actually put the health and well being of its citizens before profits and polotics.  As of next year this country only has five more years to straighten up or I am moving out. I have better things to do with my life then spend it trying to pay off hospital and medical bills. I got my first bill at sixteen for a eight thousand dollar hospital stay. In my mind i am convinced capitalism is just another form of feudalism. The only difference is instead of kings and queens we have CEO's, bankers, credit card and insurance companies.  Insurance is a waste of money espically considering just about anything is considered a "pre-existing" condition that will exclude you from coverage. So i have begun to narrow the list, England, Germany, Spain, New Zealand, Japan and Canada all seem like pretty good options to me. What do you think? I am thinking maybe Vancouver.


(kneazle_lady) #15

I am right there with you, Michael Nichols. I think I like Denmark...maybe Vancouver, just because my step sisters and step bro live there, so it could work...and it's not that far from Pittsburgh.

I know what it's like to have nothing, in terms of insulin. I was lucky, though...I had a roof over my head and food...but I couldn't eat any of the food because my insurance (did I mention I was insured? lol) had raised my deductible to $1000, and wouldn't pay for any insulin until I got that taken care of, somehow...and my monthly premium was over half of what I made every month, so I had no way to cover the expenses of paying for the insulin. I watched the level in the bottle go down, and I stopped eating to make the remaining dregs last.

It kills me...how smug some people sound when they talk about "paying their bills," like if all I did was just "pay my bills" (and I did), I would be able to pay for and afford health coverage.

I keep wondering and hoping that there is a suffering limit, a threshold of some sort or other, where you basically use it all up, and you have the rest of your life to accomplish everything good and wonderful, because Michael, you sound as though you have lived through more than your share already. Please excuse the statement, but I hope that you have far better circumstances than what you described to endure from now on.

Same for everyone else...


(since030993) #16

It's everyone's right to work for their healthcare.  Just like you work for your food, water, heat, housing, clothes.  It's a priority.  Should we help those who CAN'T (physically or circumstancially) help themselves?  Absolutely!  Should we help those who WON'T (get off their lazy butts to) help themselves?  Absolutely NOT!

It is their right to earn their keep and It's MY RIGHT not to have to pay their way!

No matter how you fold it, healthcare will never be free.  Someone somewhere will always have to pay for it.  I'd rather pay for me and mine than take a handout from the government that is less than what I could work for myself.  I have the right to control my healthcare and YOU have the power to control your own.  I don't want the government to run any other part of my life.

You have options.  You have choices.  Life deals you a bunch of crap?  You just have to work harder to overcome it!  I'm sick and tired of people claiming to be a product of their circumstances, saying "I just keep getting beat down."  Get over it.  Stop complaining and do something about it!


(CHLjoe) #17

[quote user="since030993"]

It's everyone's right to work for their healthcare.  Just like you work for your food, water, heat, housing, clothes.  It's a priority.  Should we help those who CAN'T (physically or circumstancially) help themselves?  Absolutely!  Should we help those who WON'T (get off their lazy butts to) help themselves?  Absolutely NOT!

It is their right to earn their keep and It's MY RIGHT not to have to pay their way!

No matter how you fold it, healthcare will never be free.  Someone somewhere will always have to pay for it.  I'd rather pay for me and mine than take a handout from the government that is less than what I could work for myself.  I have the right to control my healthcare and YOU have the power to control your own.  I don't want the government to run any other part of my life.

You have options.  You have choices.  Life deals you a bunch of crap?  You just have to work harder to overcome it!  I'm sick and tired of people claiming to be a product of their circumstances, saying "I just keep getting beat down."  Get over it.  Stop complaining and do something about it!

[/quote]

You already pay for people that refuse to work because they are lazy.  There is no perfect system and people do exploit it but they are the minority of the system.  To say that we have the choice to control our healthcare is shortsighted.  If I had my choice I would pay into a system that covers me and everyone else, however, I do not have that choice.  I do have the choice to either pay into what my company offers or seek another insurance company and pay their rates.  This of course comes with the caveat that I can be denied service or for that matter, coverage completely based upon their regulations.  Your last statements are just ridiculous and over the top.  The system is set up to keep people down, all you have to do is look around to see that.  People overcome obstacles but are still faced with adversity each day and said adversity does prevent them for gaining any ground in life.

 


(system) #18

[quote user="Michael Nichols"]

Health care is a basic human right. Not something that only the wealthy should have in my opinion. When i was homeless for six months i remeber panhandling to get the fourty five dollars i needed to buy a bottle of regular insulin without insurance. I swore to myself when i had to pay over sixty dollars out of pocket for a box of  twenty five test strips that if the United States did not adopt a universal health care plan for all its citizens by 2015 that i would pack my bags and become a citizen of a country that actually put the health and well being of its citizens before profits and polotics.  As of next year this country only has five more years to straighten up or I am moving out. I have better things to do with my life then spend it trying to pay off hospital and medical bills. I got my first bill at sixteen for a eight thousand dollar hospital stay. In my mind i am convinced capitalism is just another form of feudalism. The only difference is instead of kings and queens we have CEO's, bankers, credit card and insurance companies.  Insurance is a waste of money espically considering just about anything is considered a "pre-existing" condition that will exclude you from coverage. So i have begun to narrow the list, England, Germany, Spain, New Zealand, Japan and Canada all seem like pretty good options to me. What do you think? I am thinking maybe Vancouver.

[/quote]

all the cool kids move to vancouver. victoria is a prettier place to live..but the job market sucks and besides it's only an hour ferry ride to the island! haha.

wooo for healthcare!


(joshscot) #19

[quote user="CHLjoe"]

[quote user="since030993"]

It's everyone's right to work for their healthcare.  Just like you work for your food, water, heat, housing, clothes.  It's a priority.  Should we help those who CAN'T (physically or circumstancially) help themselves?  Absolutely!  Should we help those who WON'T (get off their lazy butts to) help themselves?  Absolutely NOT!

It is their right to earn their keep and It's MY RIGHT not to have to pay their way!

No matter how you fold it, healthcare will never be free.  Someone somewhere will always have to pay for it.  I'd rather pay for me and mine than take a handout from the government that is less than what I could work for myself.  I have the right to control my healthcare and YOU have the power to control your own.  I don't want the government to run any other part of my life.

You have options.  You have choices.  Life deals you a bunch of crap?  You just have to work harder to overcome it!  I'm sick and tired of people claiming to be a product of their circumstances, saying "I just keep getting beat down."  Get over it.  Stop complaining and do something about it!

[/quote]

You already pay for people that refuse to work because they are lazy.  There is no perfect system and people do exploit it but they are the minority of the system.  To say that we have the choice to control our healthcare is shortsighted.  If I had my choice I would pay into a system that covers me and everyone else, however, I do not have that choice.  I do have the choice to either pay into what my company offers or seek another insurance company and pay their rates.  This of course comes with the caveat that I can be denied service or for that matter, coverage completely based upon their regulations.  Your last statements are just ridiculous and over the top.  The system is set up to keep people down, all you have to do is look around to see that.  People overcome obstacles but are still faced with adversity each day and said adversity does prevent them for gaining any ground in life.

 

[/quote]

 

How exactly is the system set up to keep people down?  When I look around I see basically two kinds of people.  On one hand you have the people who overcome obstacles, are still faced with adversity and choose to overcome that adversity just like the last obstacle.  On the other hand, you have the people who overcome obstacles, are faced with more adversity and basically give up because, why would you keep trying if you are just going to have more things to overcome?  Everyone faces some form of adversity every day.  Some people more than others.  You can either keep overcoming obstacles and adversity and gain ground or you can just give up and wait for someone to come hand it to you.


(CHLjoe) #20

Constant rate changes, designing legal loopholes, incomprehensible language that even the most agile of liguists have difficulty with.  Few examples for you.  The narrow view you seem to have is another.  It is either people do it or they don't.  Ridiculous.