Night time fear


(mozez) #1

My 5yr old daughter is on Lantus, and humalog. I give her 3.25 units of lan, and 1unit per 30 carbs day, 1 per 40 night time. It works out beautifully. Except I am scared to death to give her too much insulin coverage at bed time. My wife and I try so hard not to have Ellieeat anything like one two hrs before bed. But she pleads, (for about three seconds.) that she is good hungry. I can't sleep daddy cuz i'm hungry, so I tell my wife, maybe she is hungry, my wife says, she is just stalling, I say, but what if she really is hungry and she is gonna go low. So, basically Ellie always wins!!!! ALWAYS!!! I'm so weak when it comes to her. So anyhow, she eats, I give me insulin, lets say at 11pm. Well I check her at 12am and she is at 123, well thats way too low with insulin still flowing, so I give her 15 check her blood 30 minute later, (that 15-15 rule doesn't work on her.) well she is at 110, so I give her another 15 20 carbs. Check her again and she is at 118. So I check her every hour to make sure she is droppping too far. So, I gave her perfect carb coverage at 11pm, and she started dropping okay. So i've given her like 30 35 carbs now, and it's 3 am and she is finally at 189, safe. Okay, so I go to sleep, well at 7am my wife does her daily morning check and bang, ellie is at 399!!!  Okay. Then other times she'll be low, and I swear carbs will not attach t o her blood for hours or something. I'll give her simple sugars, fast acters, and they wait four hours to show thier ugly face. Well also, Ellie will be perfect at like 190, I like her a little higher at bed time, and for no reason, other than I guess that damn dawn thing she shoots up to 300 400 with no carbs...... Then if I give her more than a quater unit she'll plummet. Bed tme is so hard, once Ellie is asleep she is sooooooooooo hard to wake up and i'm so afraid of her having another severe hypo, i'd rather stay awake all night every night than that,,, doesanyone have any ideas personal experience, PLEASE HELP ME.......


(2Sweet4U) #2

I was diagnosed when I was 13, so have no experience with kids that age. But something to think about with the jumping high problem is that maybe you are checking too soon? Like, if you check and it's just barely been an hour, and she has only gone up a few points, try holding off. I know you might want to give her more carbs on impulse, but maybe wait another hour and check again? She probably won't go low if you've just given her carbs an hour ago, so wait some more and see what she is after 1.5 - 2 hrs instead.

I bet you aren't getting much sleep at night. My mom still wakes me up at 2 am to check most nights. I think if you get in a routine you will be better off. At bedtime, have a rule with bg and carbs, like if her bg is over __ mg/dl give her some cheese or nuts if she is hungry, but no carbs. Since she sleeps for a long time every night, you maybe could check her bg at say 10 pm and 3 am or something like that, but don't overdo it.

When do you give her her lantus shot? If you do that at bedtime, maybe you should think about doing it in the morning instead to give you some peace of mind at night. I know it acts for 24 hours, but it does die out towards the end of 24 hours, so it wouldn't have just gone into her system if you do it in the morning.

I don't know if any of this helps. I guess just try to be a little more conservative with the amounts of insulin/carbs you are giving her. Don't freak out if her bg is high or low! Try to learn how to correct without causing a rebound high/low later. Trust me, it's tough-- I've been diabetic for four years and I still sometimes overdo it with correcting for lows and end up shooting the other way :-/


(2Sweet4U) #3

Another thing-- you actually don't have to wake Ellie up to test her bg. You could do it yourself, just stick her finger and see what her bg is. You'd obviously then have to wake her up if she's high/low, but I've heard that many parents test their young children while the child is sleeping, and they don't even wake up.


(2Sweet4U) #4

Sooo I just asked my mom about this and she mentioned that you might want to check out http://connect.diabetes.org/app/render/go.aspx?xsl=tp_community.xslt&cons_id=&ts=1260909739&signature=b1c2d6314f87ee04fd4762e5a6a60aa0

This is a link to the american diabetes association message boards. There is a special "place for parents" and my mom remembers that it was very helpful when I was dxd because there were a lot of moms and dads there who could answer pretty much any question for you. I think you might get more answers from that forum than this one, but you never know. But I think there are more parents on the ada boards. All you have to do is create an account, then you can post anything you want.


(eva330) #5

arent you supposed to check 2 hours after eating checking one hour is prob too soon. Also the amount of fats in the food you eat slow downt the carb absorbtion time... for example when i eat pizza if i give myself 7 units of humulog to cover it i will do 3 units then 4 a little while later. It def sounds like the carbs are absorbing slower so when they all hit the blood sugar skyrockets.

I feel like its all about routine. I got T1 when I was 6. When I was little I was allowed to have 1 dutch mill (i dont even think they make that brand anymore lol) choclate donut as dessert before bed... And i would look forward to that donut! and I would be fine through the night (for the most part).. I would stay with one food till you get it right then go from there... All in all her blood sugar never actually went low, sounds like you were right to begin with before you kept giving her more carbs.

You sound like a great concerned parent. I know its hard having a child with T1, my mom didnt sleep for years. Parents who help their kids the way you are are very special and she will never for get it.


(mozez) #6

Thank you so very very much for the pat on the shoulder. Some times I that really helps me. I do the best I can, and I beat myself up really really bad if I make a mistake. I know a grown man shouldn't cry but I can't help it when I mess up. Like giving humalog instead of Lantus, at bed time!! That was so flipping scary. Ellie bug use to be very helpful and scared, but now is all balls and no regard. She'll sneak stuff, eat extra, she wont lie, but if we don't know to ask, she will not speak up. But, she is only five. I NEVER EVER EVER yell at her, or correct her for doing something wrong like that, I just couldn't bring myself to do it, T1D is hard enough on her without us yelling at her about it.

I rarely wake Ellie up to chec her blood, normally she'll sleep right through it, even shots too, well unless we try to shot somewhere other than her arms, she'll snap right awake. We can't use her right arm anymore cuz it's too thick, she'll only lets us use her arms, arm now. Its a rough deal. But anyhow, Ellies endo said if she is low to give the 15-15. 15 carbs, wait 15 minutes to check. Well nothing ever ever happens after 15 minutes, and normally 15 carbs isn't enough either. Well what makes everything so hard to get into  sync and just do the same thing everyday and every night is my fault. My heart is a piece of crap so I sleep all of the time. The eight differents pills they have me on makes e sleepy, so One kid is in school, Ellie isn't right now, until she gets the pump, so we have the craziness hours around here. Like this week Ellie and I have been going to bed between 3-4am. Next week it'll be 12-2am. But I sleep all day, like 14hrs so y wife has ellie take a nap, so basically in this very confusing tale, our life, meals, bed times are a complete mess with no fix in sight!!! lol.. So we try with what the Lord gave us and gives us!


(Kristinamellis) #7

 is ellie newly diagnosed?  I know i prob read the info already most likely... but cannot remember.

I am reading a lot of stories and so far, most of them are totally different than ours!

After getting over the shock from the diagnosis, and getting over the guilt that i must have somehow, someway caused my 4 yr old daughters diabetes, we jumped right in, and have not looked back.

My husband seems to be able to keep brenna's GL's between 90 and 150 and while he is working and its just us, all of a sudden they are 200's... EEK! well when daddy is home she doesnt try to sneak stuff... but when MOM is home....

We recently went from the basic plan to the flexible one- and that is what has really made the difference for us. Yes I am freaking out because I am someone that wants structure so that I have control of at least one aspect of my life, and now that she can be flexible, I have started to have "freak outs" about what to do if she misses Breakfast... but is hungry for snack... but it is less than two hours until lunch time... etc etc etc.

Our endo gave me some GREAT advice-

Take one day at a time... and better yet- take meals and tests one at a time...

We need to recognize when we start to panic, take a deep breath, and then reason with ourselves.

I TOTALLY agree with one of the girls that posted about feeding veggies, low carb foods when she is hungry. This is my go to and I dont worry about her Gl's being affected.

 

Good luck!


(2Sweet4U) #8

You're welcome.

Yeah, definitely not a good idea to yell at a kid of any age when they're having a tough d day. Even at an older age, I feel really low and humiliated when my parents criticize my decisions-- which isn't often, but still- and I feel angry, too, because as much as they say they understand, they can never completely, you know? So definitely keep working with your daughter so that she understands you are on her side-- not a BG Nazi who rails on her. Help her try to understand that by sneaking snacks, it is only hurting her health in the long run-- but if she is too little to understand, just keep checking in with her and reminding her that it's her health.

Wow it sounds like it's pretty rough at nighttime. I guess like you say, you can't really fix it, so just try to hang in there.

As far as the carbs for bringing up a low is concerned--

if she is actually low, like less than her target (below 80,or maybe 70) then give her 15g fastacting like juice, glucose tabs, etc. Then retest in 15-20 min.

However if she is not actually low, like maybe 110 and you're nervous she'll drop before it's time for breakfast, give her 15g slowacting carbs like crackers, unsugared cereal, etc. then wait 1 hour before rechecking. Slowacting carbs will take longer to get into her system and her bg won't have changed within 20 minutes. After 1 hour, if her bg hasn't significantly changed, give her some more carbs. But you can at least get some sleep between, and you know that if she's 110 at 2 AM and you give her 15g crackers, she won't drop low within an hour, and you can recheck at 3 AM for peace of mind.

Just try to stay calm and as another responder said, take it one number at a time. Don't try too hard to guess what will happen-- just take it as it comes.


(Jesse-1) #9

thats true 4 sure our 4 yr old doesnt even move when we check his levels...its pretty funny actually


(mozez) #10

Ellie has had T1D for about 18 months. For about the first 10 months I was a monster. I've never been so controlling and mean to my wife as I was at first with Ellies care. If My poor wife so much as make Ellie be over 250 I was on her, "what did you do wrong..??" I kept Ellie at a strict 100-120 all the time. Her a1c was  6.75. Well, Ellie had a severe Hypo event, one friday night and again sat. morning. The first one was "localized ,"to her arms, they shook so violently i'm almost crying thining about it. Then the sat. morning was a full blown seizure. I can't describe it i'm sorry I just can't mental relive it. But the problem was too tight control of her numbers. For her age, 4-6 or 7 150-180 is great. Because kids so young burn through carbs like an SUV does gas. So yeah, now that i've let go alittle, and keep her at 150-200 at all times, i'm happy and the docs are happy and Ellie feel good and thats whats important.

The second hypo, was actually our local ER doctors fault. He gave us horribly incorrect info on what to do that night, and well it caused another severe hypo. NOW, if EVER I mean EVER I have any questions concerns problems I call the people that know, her Endo or a CDE. CDEs are Gods gift, I love each and every one of them, they are all so great and kind and helpful, I just love em.

So if anyone was to take my advice, keeping BG numbers between 90-120 is dangerous, just plain dangerous. For  young children I mean, they can shoot so low so fast it makes my heart drop.