Science


(Anonymous) #1

I believe science provides the world with too many excuses. Some people do drugs because their body is "addicted," some people drink alcohol because they've become dependent on it. But personally I believe human will is always stronger than any and all forms of dependence.

We live with diabetes because it's "incurable."

It seems to me science excuses a lot of our actions using numbers and equations.

 

Any thoughts on this?


(Anonymous) #2

PS
I apologize for hitting the post button twice... :D


(meme) #3

Human Will,I wish that would work for those trying to find a way out. It's best not to open that door-alcohol or drugs-once in,if a person runs into trouble,it can be hard to get out. Many very good people become addicted,not meaning to.---now show your mom what I said,I hope it will be ok with her.


(Anonymous) #4

I am a bit confused, why wouldn't that be okay to say?


(meme) #5

It's just me being me,I like all subjects run by parents. And I have one question,If you become president one day,can I walk the dog ? ha,unless I am to old and tired by then!!


(Eric_Carpenter) #6

Rather than offer people excuses, I would say science offers explanations. If people want to use this as an excuse (my blood sugar is high, instead of taking insulin I'll just accept that diabetes causes increased blood sugar), that is up to them. 

In regards to dependence...it sounds like you think alcoholism is somehow different from diabetes. Diabetes is a condition with a biological basis, that we treat with insulin...no one looks down on a diabetic as weak for taking insulin. Why do we treat dependence differently? Another biological basis, with perhaps a more complicated treatment required.  Keeping this false distinction promotes bias and impedes progress...something which science actually works against.  I can't will myself out of diabetes...but I can use the insulin that science has provided.


(Anonymous) #7

Eric,

I agree in terms of science offers explinations. So perhaps I should rephrase this saying science doesn't provide the excuses, rather the explinations are often twisted into excuses. Meaning I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say, in reference to type 1 diabetes, "Well, its an incurable disease so what's the point?"

And in terms of me thinking alcoholism is different from diabetes, I absaloutely do. I do not deny that such dependence is genetic (a lot of the time), but I do believe that despite this the will to change it can over come it. I'm not sure what you're saying here, because I cannot tell if you agree that it's different or not. In fact, perhaps this shouldn't have been a post that found it's way onto the forums (mine, I mean). But it is derived simply from the search for quite a few peoples' "can do" attitudes. I think they've been lost, their attitudes.

So, let me know, Eric, because it's unclear to me if you think I'm wrong - which I'm not trying to offend people. Just so ya know.

- Alyssa

(and yes, Meme, if I'm ever President you can walk all my dogs. We can get you a wheelchair or scooter and they can pull you around, if needed)


(meme) #8

Oh my goodness,I am laughing so hard,this laptop is shaking!!  I have to go,STILL LAUGHING,and I'm going to hold you to it when you reach the WHITE HOUSE!!!


(Anonymous) #9

:P LOL Meme, you're cracking me up. The White House is quite a stretch :D

But, should the 8-ball hold that in my future, no problems here about you being my dog-walker. That would be great lol I'd love to have your services :D In fact, I may end up naming a Presidential Poodle after you, my friend.


(meme) #10

you have made my day,I came back to look at this post,and I'm laughing again!!! Now this time I really am going.But I think I should mail a check to JDRF,for this post making me laugh so hard!! Take Care


(Anonymous) #11

Don't laugh too hard, Meme, we wouldn't want ya busting anything :D I'd say we wouldn't want you busting your pancreas, but that option's shot.


(meme) #12

Hi Eric,I think you have to separate type1 from anything else.It comes out of nowhere at a person.But the other things such as alcohol addiction come about because of action taken.Why addiction happens to some and not others,science may tell us and be the answer needed to help so many people.I would never see anyone as weak for having a problem.Something happens in the brain and causes the addiction.Why some people can drink all their life and do great and others can't I don't know.Blame has no place as far as I can see.If you have info on this,I would read it.Take Care


(Anonymous) #13

I'm so confused :D


(meme) #14

so am I,this calls for a super hero,and who might that be?


(Anonymous) #15

Alright, meme, I'm sending brain waves :D The Juvenation call is out lol so hopefully we get our hero soon.

I, however, haven't a clue who that might be :D


(meme) #16

HA!!     Whats the wait period for a super hero? maybe you should text


(meme) #17

sorry Alyssa,this is what happens when Paul is away..I think the super hero is away getting ready for the 4th!


(CJ1230) #18

Hi Alyssa,

Saw the call again and came running, LOL read your post to?????

CJ


(Anonymous) #19

Me and meme? (hah) are confused


(Eric_Carpenter) #20

Hi Alyssa and meme,

Alyssa I agree with you that we often stop too soon and interpret the excuses we want to see. I'm not offended at all, and wouldn't be even if I disagreed with you.

I referenced dependence because of the start of the thread...but maybe an easier example is to start with mental illness.  I accept that diabetes is a condition brought on by genetics, environment, and experience.  I was not a bad person for getting it, and don't think I'm a bad person for taking the insulin to manage my diabetes.  Yet I know people who think depression is "all in your head", and that individuals who take anti-depressants are "weak" or not trying hard enough to manage their condition.  In short, they don't have a strong enough will to stop their depression.  I accept that depression is caused by a  combination of genetics, environment, and experience.  So why would this difference between diabetes and depression exist? I typically find that it has to do with the idea that "mental" processes are different than "physical" ones, and that we should have more control over our mental lives.  However, if we accept that the brain is an organ that follows the same rules as our pancreas...there is no difference.  I have friends with bipolar, ADHD, and borderline personality disorder who all refuse to take medication because of this concept.

Going back to dependence, if we now connect A and B, if the brain follows the same rules as the pancreas for developing illness, how is dependence different? Yes, someone took a drink, but I got a virus (or immunization or whatever else one might think), and the depressed person experienced the death of a family member.  Gambling addiction and internet addiction are now recognized as addiction even though there is no direct ingestion of an addictive substance. This is because they involve the same symptoms and brain activation as "drug" dependence.  Addiction has even been recognized in animal research...so some might need to reevaluate how they interpret addiction, animals, or both.  Rats with electrodes implanted into their "reward" centers will pull a lever to stimulate the area until they collapse from exhaustion (does this sound like anyone you know?).

So now if we remove the distinction between diabetes and addiction, how does will power come into play? I find that you can't formally assign blame in either situation, and the blame game does no good for anyone (thx meme). If willpower works for some and not others, why? What is it? If willpower is ineffective, as it is in many situations, I find it not worth considering. In psychology (my field of choice) I think the terms you would be interested in are Motivation and Resilience (why do people do what they do, and how do they stay strong when faced with bad situations). These are not in my area, but if they interest you, a career could be developed around studying them. Thanks for reading while I shout from my soapbox.